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Post by jolie on Sept 14, 2008 23:38:39 GMT -5
I think its odd how sslyby has attracted so many hipsters.. they are so sincere and make such upbeat music, they seem like the last band that would be popular among the trendy.
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Post by crazycstudios on Sept 15, 2008 3:14:18 GMT -5
A hipster, and to a greater extent a scenester, will go to any show at their favorite venue (or most popular one for the latter) if a band that gives them more "cred" isn't playing elsewhere. SSLYBY pulls in a few more of each based off their name more than their music. I've met a few people at shows who were there who had no idea who any of the bands were.
Hipsters themselves can be broken down into various sub groups (of which I'll only mention a couple). The most annoying are the music snobs, who not only won't dance at the shows, but if they actually knew of the band, will spend most of their time bitching about how the band isn't as good as it was. The bitching tends to correlate to the number of people there. The more people suggests more popular, thus they have to be snobbier. Others, split between hipsters and scenesters (but mostly scenesters), won't dance because they don't want to screw up how they look. They spent hours trying to get the look down pat and no matter how great the music, they can't get with the rhythm lest it puts a hair out of place and lowers their standing amongst their peers. (I should probably mention for those unsure, a scenester is a poser. They go to hipster hang outs and shows trying to look the part but have little idea what's going on. They're only there in hopes of being seen and based of their presence, be liked. Most of them are just trying to get laid, anything else going on be d**ned. Typical poser stuff.)
To some varying degree, I would classify the people of the forum hipsters. Mostly because we're hip. But mainly because we all enjoy music, talking about it, seeing it live, and for those musical inclined, making it. I'm guessing here that most of us are fairly similar dressed, falling within the style range of hipsters. The way were differ from the negative definition of hipster is that we tend to enjoy music more than the scene. The scene for us is just another aspect of the music, where as music is just part of the scene for the hipsters we hate.
It's 4AM and I'm awake again, so if anything doesn't make sense, blame sleep deprivation.
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Post by Meghan on Sept 15, 2008 9:44:06 GMT -5
man, did you study hipsters or something?
i don't think i'm a hipster for many reasons, mainly because i don't know a lot of music/go to a lot of shows. i think the only thing i share with em is that i accidently bought some 80s style glasses which are apparently trendy...i just saw them on a street sale in new york and they reminded of phil.
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Post by ray m. on Sept 15, 2008 15:18:12 GMT -5
i don't go to a lot of shows. i try to go to as many as possible but no good bands come to syracuse, its all crappy hardcore. however, i don't usually dance at shows. i mean, i want to, but i feel awkward and no one else is usually dancing and i hate being a black sheep.
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Post by tiger suit on Sept 15, 2008 15:31:48 GMT -5
this whole definition of a hipster is getting me so confused. i sort of go to a lot of show, one or two a month, and i never dance at them. but i go to them because they are bands i truly know + love. hipster? i have no idea.
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Post by ray m. on Sept 15, 2008 15:42:50 GMT -5
i doubt it. just cause you fit some of the description doesn't make you one.
i mean thats just the stereotypical hipster.
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Post by Meghan on Sept 15, 2008 15:42:56 GMT -5
this whole definition of a hipster is getting me so confused. i sort of go to a lot of show, one or two a month, and i never dance at them. but i go to them because they are bands i truly know + love. hipster? i have no idea. yea there really is no definition of hipster, it's like all labels are, difficult to define a person. labels aside, all i know is there is a select part of an audience who has an air of snobbery about them. they usually don't like me as i've been talked loudly about by someone at a show i'm a "fangirl teenybopper", and as stated before, they criticize the setlist and sound. and i don't think you seem to be someone like that. and i'm sorry if anyone or myself offended you by the dancing comment. i think everyone on here seems genuine and not the quintessential hipster snob
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Post by exegesis on Sept 15, 2008 15:50:50 GMT -5
crazycstudios,
generalizing people and especially groups of people is a very dangerous thing. doing so can often lead you away from seeing all the good people have to offer. not to mention, there is no "street dictionary," so while you think the above constitutes a hipster, someone else probably has an entirely different view of what it means (they may even think it's you). all in all, i think you sound pretty bitter with some bad experiences and maybe you should try to view people a little less critically. it's pretty dangerous to classify a whole group of people as "posers."
and personally, i like to think that everyone on these boards is fairly different. no knows who everyone on here dresses or their motives for doing so. we all at least like sslyby and that's why we're here: to have a good time and chat about them (and this sweet 7" especially). there's no reason to assume that you know everyone's intentions. even ray said above there that he doesn't generally dance at shows, but does that mean he is a snob/poser/whatever generic term you'd like? probably not.
anyway, no bad blood or nothing, but i'd hate to see everyone here losing sleep because they're trying to figure out if they're a hipster according to some random dude. maybe they'd read that and try harder to "fit in" to your specifications at shows by dancing and whatnot. but wouldn't that make them something they're not: a poser?
love, matt
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Post by tiger suit on Sept 15, 2008 16:28:04 GMT -5
Meghan: okay, i understand. i mean, it mostly just comes down to the kind of person someone is. i know there are people out there who try to be like others. you seem to be the kind of person who really likes to get into dancing and such, and i mean, just because someone doesn't physically show that they are loving it up, by dancing, doesn't mean that they are just there to be cool, that's why i was sort of put off by the not dancing remark.
matt: you made some incredibly good points. if people take these "definitions" and try to go against them or whatever, it will just be defeating the whole purpose of being yourself. so, thumbs up for good words.
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Post by sarahw on Sept 15, 2008 17:08:11 GMT -5
Hipsters themselves can be broken down into various sub groups [...] To some varying degree, I would classify the people of the forum hipsters. Mostly because we're hip. But mainly because we all enjoy music, talking about it, seeing it live, and for those musical inclined, making it.[...]The way were differ from the negative definition of hipster [...] Weird, some people found crazycstudio's explanation negative and labeling, but I found it the opposite. To me it was actually helpful in showing that "hipster" actually has a very wide definition, there is more to it than the narrow label some people give it, not all of it is bad, and many here on the forum might fit the good parts of that definition Some labels and descriptions are downright degrading, but most are simply relative terms made up to aid communication. It's all in the eyes of the beholder...even our own eyes - like how most of us feel fat when we weigh more than what is normal for us. There will almost always be someone we feel that is more skinny, fat, tall, short, rich, poor, hip, non-hip than us Sorry mods. Okay, to get this thread back on topic... I heard back from Polyvinyl and they reset my download code. Yay! Well I accidentally put one too many 4's in the email, so they reset a non-existent download code. I sooo fail. And I was so stoked that I'd actually get to listen to the new version of "We Can Win Missouri" tonight. Well maybe some other day ... or week. Woah. It only took a few minutes for them to get back to me this time, not a whole week. I'm listening to "We Can Win Missouri" now.
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Post by jolie on Sept 15, 2008 17:44:13 GMT -5
yeah I think its pretty obvious that we all care about the music considering we're in a forum. and no one here seems like the type to denounce pershing for being 'too mainstream' or not indie enough.
ps: matt is your name after a why? song?
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Post by Meghan on Sept 15, 2008 17:49:54 GMT -5
Meghan: okay, i understand. i mean, it mostly just comes down to the kind of person someone is. i know there are people out there who try to be like others. you seem to be the kind of person who really likes to get into dancing and such, and i mean, just because someone doesn't physically show that they are loving it up, by dancing, doesn't mean that they are just there to be cool, that's why i was sort of put off by the not dancing remark. oh of course, a lot of people i go to shows with aren't dancers. i know a lot of people aren't and it doesn't bother me. it bothers me when certain people get mad at me because i do dance or criticize the band they paid to see. i forget how this started. i think i just made a joke about hipsters mindlessly, i didn't realize it'd escalate or offend anyone. so that's my two cents. and with this closing note: the whole in-depth debate about hipsters on the 7" split thread seems unnecessary. if anyone wishes to continue it, take it up elsewhere on the forum, please. and sarahw, don't worry, i make dumb mistakes like that all the time. lol, i'm glad you got the code fixed!
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Post by exegesis on Sept 15, 2008 19:44:26 GMT -5
yeah I think its pretty obvious that we all care about the music considering we're in a forum. and no one here seems like the type to denounce pershing for being 'too mainstream' or not indie enough. ps: matt is your name after a why? song? yes! also we were discussing the topic today in a history class i'm in as well. i've been lurking around here for a while and registered to respond to that guy, and alopecia was the first thing i saw as i did. /more than you bargained for
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Post by jolie on Sept 15, 2008 19:58:51 GMT -5
thats one of my favorite songs from alopecia. I was kind of upset that they didn't play it on saturday night but they were still incredible live. also since it was an 18+ kind of "hip" show I was able to dorkily talk to the bands without interference from the other people who were more concerned about seeming cool. they were really really nice but they didn't play sanddollars, another favorite of mine, because the bassist forgot how.
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Post by ray m. on Sept 15, 2008 20:21:21 GMT -5
ahahahaha. when i saw ben kweller, he forget the lyrics to his songs like 3 times and he had to ask the crowd fro the rest of the song. i thought it was really funny (but also kind of unprofessional [but i guess if you are a rockstar you don't have to be professional]).
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Post by exegesis on Sept 15, 2008 21:38:58 GMT -5
i saw them once with islands a few years ago, and they was phenomenal. highly unfortunate however that they're not coming anywhere near tennessee on this tour they've been on.
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Post by crazycstudios on Sept 15, 2008 21:52:51 GMT -5
(Forgive me Meghan, I just want to give my closing... eh... speech connected to the conversation. I'm not interested in continuing the hipster debate, thus the lack of another thread. I don't know if we have a working "hide" command on this forum, so I can't minimize my response for those who don't care, sorry. I'll bold on topic talk at the end for anyone who wants to skip to it.)
I forgot about posting that until I was at work (I knew there was something I wanted to check...) so now that I'm home, I just want to make some quick responses in my defense and then I'll gladly let it die. Going down the list.
First - I want to apologize for starting this rathole off topic. I took a basic idea and then just ran with it. I forgot the crucial editing process.
2nd - Nope, I didn't study hipsters, I'm an anthropologist so the "thesis" was developed from my own love of people watching, picking up comments others have made about hipsters, and other conversations I've had about them. (Interestingly, with at least one other anthropologist.) It's not fully flushed out or anything but I don't have any funding and never really expected to write at length about it. The off chance someone does want a debate, finance me and wait a couple months for me to do field research so I can get a proper document created covering far more than my other post did.
3rd - Referring to board members as hipsters, there's a few key words and phrases at the beginning of that paragraph. "To some varying degree, I would classify the people of the forum hipsters. Mostly because we're hip." To some varying degree links back to presenting my definition of hipster as widespread. Because we're hip shows that I don't take the label all too seriously (if put into a situation to label myself, I tend to go with the even more vague "Indie" or "Artist" or the every popular "Poor").
4th - Labeling continued. Whoa boy, that is a big one. I thank Sarah for covering most of the basic idea. Like I said, I don't worry too much about labels and haven't for years. I see labels in many ways and thus they end up just as accessories and tools of language to me. I did say there was various subgroups of hipsters and I would only be looking at one. And looking back now, I do see where I misspoke and got too general here and there. I did forget the very important sentence "Hipster has an extremely broad definition and can overlap into other groups." Like I said, I wasn't planning on making my definition a major work though. A lot of it was developed during humorous conversations with friends. That's partly why the examples are of the more negative hipster ideas. I really did refer to only a small number of any hipster that shows up to a show, or a coffee shop, or a record shop, or that guy who comes into the library. You know, the one that hangs out with the hippie. (Haha, labeling humor. Gold, I tells ya!)
5th - "Poser". Now be fair, I specified intent there. Maybe a little too vague (saying "trying to be liked" instead of "trying to bolster their own 'cred' amongst others" did leave it open to concepts like "trying not to look out of place"). I honestly don't think anyone here is a poser. Unless they make that their nickname. In that case, too bad.
6th - Dancers - I also didn't mean to offend anybody connecting dancing with this or that. It was just part of the explanation of a subgroup.
7th - Definition - I didn't make clear enough (if at all) that this was my definition. Sorry, that probably would have helped.
8th - My use of "humor" in this response is meant to make it easier to put up with and defuse any remaining tension. If anyone thinks it "cheapens" the discussion, you had too much stock in the off topic discussion to begin with and please refer to final note.
Final note - Please just message any response to this to me directly or take it up in any "hipster defining" thread elsewhere. It's done enough damage here, and I apologize for this additional contribution, I just wanted to answer for my mess.
BACK TO TOPIC Okay, so for those who have the 7", particularly Sarah who mentioned it, how's the new version of "We Can Win Missouri" sound compared to the old? Like, more/less upbeat? Also more/less signature mumbling? I really want this record.
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Post by jolie on Sept 15, 2008 21:53:27 GMT -5
yeah dude builit to spill/islands/every band known to humanity are totally ignoring florida this time around so I know how you feel. sorry in advance if i'm really angsty with my posting for the next say......... 3 months. i have no concerts to look forward to and all of my friends except one graduated. that would be semi-bearable except for the fact that I have to visit my step family in rural georgia that I've only met once with 5 baby step cousins over thanksgiving break which is when I would see them all. so like I said... sorry in advance
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Post by crazycstudios on Sept 15, 2008 21:55:39 GMT -5
yeah dude they are totally ignoring florida this time around so I know how you feel. sorry in advance if i'm really angsty with my posting for the next say......... 3 months. i have no concerts to look forward to and all of my friends except one graduated. that would be semi-bearable except for the fact that I have to visit my step family in rural georgia that I've only met once with 5 baby step cousins over thanksgiving break which is when I would see them all. so like I said... sorry in advance Hey, don't worry about be ansty. After my wordiness, it will likely be well received.
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Post by Meghan on Sept 15, 2008 22:12:19 GMT -5
the version of we can missouri is supposed to be the one they used to record this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAoLqe1YtUAso ya it should sound exactly like it. i love it more than the original although i do miss the end part where phil says something about wanting to play guitar
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